ANIMAL FORUM

>Dreck wrote:
>>>>>>>>Its your claim that usual suspect is an ARA,
>>>
>>>Ive never supported animal rights in any way, shape, or form.
>>>
>>>>>>>Thats not what I said, learn to read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You forwarded usual suspect as another
>>>>>>person apart from yourself, who was
>>>>>>persuaded of the invalidity of AR thinking,
>>>>>>but chose to stick around., so tell me when
>>>>>>this took place, Dutch.
>>>>>
>>>>>I dont care when it exactly took place, probably over a period of time.
>>>>
>>>>Then why didnt you correct Jon on this point
>>>>at the time he contested your reply?
>>>
>>>I thought veganism wasnt political or even monolithically leftist. I
>>>found out it was both. Thats when I stopped using vegan to describe
>>>anything about me. It is an unsuitable description of me and my life.
>>
>> So you say, but how can we believe you?
>
>Read my posts.

>> Dutch
>> was right to forward your name in response to
>> Jons comment because the two of you are very
>> similar in the way you jump from one position
>> and back again.
>
>Not at all.

> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:14:58 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

>>>>I thought veganism wasnt political or even monolithically leftist. I
>>>>found out it was both. Thats when I stopped using vegan to describe
>>>>anything about me. It is an unsuitable description of me and my life.
>>>
>>>So you say, but how can we believe you?
>>
>>Read my posts.
>
>
> He posted your posts. What do you think happened
> to those which arent here right now?
>
>
>>>Dutch
>>>was right to forward your name in response to
>>>Jons comment because the two of you are very
>>>similar in the way you jump from one position
>>>and back again.
>>
>>Not at all.
>
>
> No, not with the Gonad (if thats the Jon youre
> referring to). We havent been able to find examples
> of any of his oppositions to AR.

> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:14:58 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
>
> >Dreck wrote:
> >>>>>>>>Its your claim that usual suspect is an ARA,
> >>>
> >>>Ive never supported animal rights in any way, shape, or form.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>Thats not what I said, learn to read.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You forwarded usual suspect as another
> >>>>>>person apart from yourself, who was
> >>>>>>persuaded of the invalidity of AR thinking,
> >>>>>>but chose to stick around., so tell me when
> >>>>>>this took place, Dutch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I dont care when it exactly took place, probably over a period of time.
> >>>>
> >>>>Then why didnt you correct Jon on this point
> >>>>at the time he contested your reply?
> >>>
> >>>I thought veganism wasnt political or even monolithically leftist. I
> >>>found out it was both. Thats when I stopped using vegan to describe
> >>>anything about me. It is an unsuitable description of me and my life.
> >>
> >> So you say, but how can we believe you?
> >
> >Read my posts.
>
> He posted your posts. What do you think happened
> to those which arent here right now?
>

> >> Dutch
> >> was right to forward your name in response to
> >> Jons comment because the two of you are very
> >> similar in the way you jump from one position
> >> and back again.
> >
> >Not at all.
>
> No, not with the Gonad (if thats the Jon youre
> referring to). We havent been able to find examples
> of any of his oppositions to AR. Can you provide
> any? How about any of your own?
>

>ipse dixit wrote:

>> Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
>> by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
>> far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
>> protection under the law. But are they endowed with
>> any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
>> usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
>>
>> From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
>> but since Jon started telling you how to think
>> you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
>
>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.

> Bart said:
> So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> over the animal kingdom.

>>>Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
>>>by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
>>>far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
>>>protection under the law. But are they endowed with
>>>any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
>>>usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
>>>
>>>From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
>>>but since Jon started telling you how to think
>>>you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
>>
>>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
>>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.
>
> Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
> similar comment from Bart.

> [start]
> From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
> Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST
>
>
>>Bart said:
>>So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
>>over the animal kingdom.
>
>
> Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
> The answer is found immediately following one of
> the verses you quoted:
>
> Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
> God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
> seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
> tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
> Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
> air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
> there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
> and it was so.
>
> So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to
> veganism and vegetarianism as any other religion.
> [end]

> Dreck wrote:
> >>>Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
> >>>by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
> >>>far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
> >>>protection under the law. But are they endowed with
> >>>any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
> >>>usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
> >>>
> >>>From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
> >>>but since Jon started telling you how to think
> >>>you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
> >>
> >>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
> >>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.
> >
> > Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
> > similar comment from Bart.
>
> Which, as usual, you have selectively snipped and taken out of context.
>

> > [start]
> > From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
> > Original Format
> > Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
> > Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST
> >
> >
> >>Bart said:
> >>So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> >>over the animal kingdom.
> >
> >
> > Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
> > The answer is found immediately following one of
> > the verses you quoted:
> >
> > Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
> > God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
> > seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
> > tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
> > Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
> > air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
> > there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
> > and it was so.
> >
> > So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to
> > veganism and vegetarianism as any other religion.
> > [end]
>
> Whole post:
> ------
> Bart said:
> > So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> > over the animal kingdom.
>
> Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them? The answer is found
> immediately following one of the verses you quoted:
>
> Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And God said, See, I have
> given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the
> earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for
> food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and
> to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have
> given every green herb for food; and it was so.
>
> So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to veganism and
> vegetarianism as any other religion.
>

> > If one was to compare Veganism to a religious/spiritual brand,
> > it would come close to Buddhism and Hinduism.
>
> Sorry, but youre off in the wrong direction. Veganism is not a religion
> or a spiritual issue for most people. Indeed, certain (and quite kind)
> people on this newsgroup advertise their atheism in their signatures.
> While I dont share their views (or is it lack of views?) on religion, I
> share their concerns over issues relating to health, animal welfare,
> pollution and the environment, etc.
> ------------------
> - End whole post -
> ------------------
>

> usual suspect wrote:
>
> I dont know if the Creator gave *animals* rights,
> but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals.
> Funny that.

> Bart said:
> So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> over the animal kingdom.