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PostPosted: 2004-02-01 15:13:18
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On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:14:58 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

>Dreck wrote:
>>>>>>>>Its your claim that usual suspect is an ARA,
>>>
>>>Ive never supported animal rights in any way, shape, or form.
>>>
>>>>>>>Thats not what I said, learn to read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You forwarded usual suspect as another
>>>>>>person apart from yourself, who was
>>>>>>persuaded of the invalidity of AR thinking,
>>>>>>but chose to stick around., so tell me when
>>>>>>this took place, Dutch.
>>>>>
>>>>>I dont care when it exactly took place, probably over a period of time.
>>>>
>>>>Then why didnt you correct Jon on this point
>>>>at the time he contested your reply?
>>>
>>>I thought veganism wasnt political or even monolithically leftist. I
>>>found out it was both. Thats when I stopped using vegan to describe
>>>anything about me. It is an unsuitable description of me and my life.
>>
>> So you say, but how can we believe you?
>
>Read my posts.

He posted your posts. What do you think happened
to those which arent here right now?

>> Dutch
>> was right to forward your name in response to
>> Jons comment because the two of you are very
>> similar in the way you jump from one position
>> and back again.
>
>Not at all.

No, not with the Gonad (if thats the Jon youre
referring to). We havent been able to find examples
of any of his oppositions to AR. Can you provide
any? How about any of your own?


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PostPosted: 2004-02-01 16:19:43
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Fat fuck FUCKWIT David Harrison dh ld@nomail.com wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:14:58 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

>>>>I thought veganism wasnt political or even monolithically leftist. I
>>>>found out it was both. Thats when I stopped using vegan to describe
>>>>anything about me. It is an unsuitable description of me and my life.
>>>
>>>So you say, but how can we believe you?
>>
>>Read my posts.
>
>
> He posted your posts. What do you think happened
> to those which arent here right now?
>
>
>>>Dutch
>>>was right to forward your name in response to
>>>Jons comment because the two of you are very
>>>similar in the way you jump from one position
>>>and back again.
>>
>>Not at all.
>
>
> No, not with the Gonad (if thats the Jon youre
> referring to). We havent been able to find examples
> of any of his oppositions to AR.

any of his oppositions. Learn to write English,
FUCKWIT, or stop posting.

It is not in question that I am an opponent of ar.
You know I am an opponent of ar, and so does everyone
else.


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PostPosted: 2004-02-01 18:36:59
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Joined: 2004-02-01 18:36:59
wrote in message
news:046q10p450uhpic2h87iisvahcs61h5c40@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:14:58 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
>
> >Dreck wrote:
> >>>>>>>>Its your claim that usual suspect is an ARA,
> >>>
> >>>Ive never supported animal rights in any way, shape, or form.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>Thats not what I said, learn to read.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>You forwarded usual suspect as another
> >>>>>>person apart from yourself, who was
> >>>>>>persuaded of the invalidity of AR thinking,
> >>>>>>but chose to stick around., so tell me when
> >>>>>>this took place, Dutch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I dont care when it exactly took place, probably over a period of time.
> >>>>
> >>>>Then why didnt you correct Jon on this point
> >>>>at the time he contested your reply?
> >>>
> >>>I thought veganism wasnt political or even monolithically leftist. I
> >>>found out it was both. Thats when I stopped using vegan to describe
> >>>anything about me. It is an unsuitable description of me and my life.
> >>
> >> So you say, but how can we believe you?
> >
> >Read my posts.
>
> He posted your posts. What do you think happened
> to those which arent here right now?
>
Here they are.

I am vegan
usual suspect 2002-05-09

First, dont EVER call me a vegan or even just vegan.
usual suspect 2003-06-10

No thanks, Im a vegan.
usual suspect 2003-08-14

Youll find my views have been consistent.
usual suspect 2003-09-05

Ooops.

> >> Dutch
> >> was right to forward your name in response to
> >> Jons comment because the two of you are very
> >> similar in the way you jump from one position
> >> and back again.
> >
> >Not at all.
>
> No, not with the Gonad (if thats the Jon youre
> referring to). We havent been able to find examples
> of any of his oppositions to AR. Can you provide
> any? How about any of your own?
>
Exactly! Ill bet you anything hes googling all meatBalls
posts this very minute, just in case he gets it wrong. Hah!


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PostPosted: 2004-02-02 16:25:27
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Joined: 2004-02-02 16:25:27
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:14:58 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
>ipse dixit wrote:

>> Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
>> by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
>> far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
>> protection under the law. But are they endowed with
>> any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
>> usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
>>
>> From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
>> but since Jon started telling you how to think
>> you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
>
>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.

Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
similar comment from Bart.

[start]
From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST

> Bart said:
> So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> over the animal kingdom.

Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
The answer is found immediately following one of
the verses you quoted:

Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
and it was so.

So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to
veganism and vegetarianism as any other religion.
[end]


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PostPosted: 2004-02-02 17:07:37
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Joined: 2004-02-02 17:07:37
Dreck wrote:
>>>Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
>>>by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
>>>far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
>>>protection under the law. But are they endowed with
>>>any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
>>>usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
>>>
>>>From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
>>>but since Jon started telling you how to think
>>>you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
>>
>>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
>>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.
>
> Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
> similar comment from Bart.

Which, as usual, you have selectively snipped and taken out of context.

> [start]
> From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
> Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST
>
>
>>Bart said:
>>So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
>>over the animal kingdom.
>
>
> Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
> The answer is found immediately following one of
> the verses you quoted:
>
> Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
> God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
> seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
> tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
> Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
> air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
> there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
> and it was so.
>
> So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to
> veganism and vegetarianism as any other religion.
> [end]

Whole post:
------
Bart said:

Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them? The answer is found
immediately following one of the verses you quoted:

Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And God said, See, I have
given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the
earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for
food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and
to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have
given every green herb for food; and it was so.

So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to veganism and
vegetarianism as any other religion.


Sorry, but youre off in the wrong direction. Veganism is not a religion
or a spiritual issue for most people. Indeed, certain (and quite kind)
people on this newsgroup advertise their atheism in their signatures.
While I dont share their views (or is it lack of views?) on religion, I
share their concerns over issues relating to health, animal welfare,
pollution and the environment, etc.
------------------
- End whole post -
------------------

Again, I was laboring under the erroneous positions that veganism is not
a religion and that animal WELFARE was a concern rather than animal
rights. I also was wrong on my assessment of those vegan bastards: they
are not quite nice, but misanthropes who took a liking to me only
because I was something of a novelty. My position at that time, though,
is at odds with your representation of it. The next day I replied to the
following point:

----------
Gadfly wrote:
One could also say, that it simply means God gave plants to
humans and animals for food. I cant see this as any sort of
foundation or biblical support for veganism. There is nothing
in the bible that prohibits eating animals (except certain
species).

I wrote:
God gave no one permission to eat animals until after the flood
(Genesis 9). Before that, permission (if it can be called that)
was only given to eat of plants.

If you want to be accurate, even the meat of clean animals
must contain NO blood if it is to be eaten and the animals must
be killed in a specific way (which means that most meat sold --
aside from kosher meats -- in supermarkets is biblically
prohibited).
-----------

The discussion wasnt broad, but quite specific. At no time did I say
the Bible forbids the eating of meat, or that God forbids the slaughter
of animals. Elsewhere, I mentioned the book DOMINION by Matthew Scully
-- a fellow conservative who argues forcefully for strengthening and
enforcing animal welfare laws. I still support those measures, as do
others whom you disparage as antis in these newsgroups.


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PostPosted: 2004-02-02 19:54:27
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Joined: 2004-02-02 19:54:27
usual suspect wrote in message
news:ttvTb.11598$2J1.3172@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> Dreck wrote:
> >>>Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
> >>>by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
> >>>far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
> >>>protection under the law. But are they endowed with
> >>>any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
> >>>usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
> >>>
> >>>From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
> >>>but since Jon started telling you how to think
> >>>you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
> >>
> >>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
> >>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.
> >
> > Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
> > similar comment from Bart.
>
> Which, as usual, you have selectively snipped and taken out of context.
>
I included the whole question and your whole
reply to it, so youre wrong to claim I took
it out of context.

> > [start]
> > From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
> > Original Format
> > Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
> > Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST
> >
> >
> >>Bart said:
> >>So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> >>over the animal kingdom.
> >
> >
> > Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
> > The answer is found immediately following one of
> > the verses you quoted:
> >
> > Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
> > God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
> > seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
> > tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
> > Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
> > air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
> > there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
> > and it was so.
> >
> > So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to
> > veganism and vegetarianism as any other religion.
> > [end]
>
> Whole post:
> ------
> Bart said:
> > So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> > over the animal kingdom.
>
> Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them? The answer is found
> immediately following one of the verses you quoted:
>
> Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And God said, See, I have
> given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the
> earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for
> food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and
> to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have
> given every green herb for food; and it was so.
>
> So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to veganism and
> vegetarianism as any other religion.
>
And thats the end of your response to that
question, so its clear that I never took it out
of context at all because its exactly as I
copied to here.

> > If one was to compare Veganism to a religious/spiritual brand,
> > it would come close to Buddhism and Hinduism.
>
> Sorry, but youre off in the wrong direction. Veganism is not a religion
> or a spiritual issue for most people. Indeed, certain (and quite kind)
> people on this newsgroup advertise their atheism in their signatures.
> While I dont share their views (or is it lack of views?) on religion, I
> share their concerns over issues relating to health, animal welfare,
> pollution and the environment, etc.
> ------------------
> - End whole post -
> ------------------
>
And that, as you can see had nothing to with with
God giving us dominion over animals, so it wouldnt
have been in anyones interest to include it. Why do
you now believe that our dominion over them entitles
us to eat them all of a sudden? Oh, I get it; Jon wants
you to change your Christian beliefs as well, and being
completely and utterly caught up in his lies and persuasion,
youll change them accordingly. What a smuck!


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PostPosted: 2004-02-02 22:12:14
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Joined: 2004-02-02 22:12:14
Dreck wrote:

> And that, as you can see

No, as you can take out of context...

> had nothing to with with
> God giving us dominion over animals, so it wouldnt
> have been in anyones interest to include it. Why do
> you now believe that our dominion over them entitles
> us to eat them all of a sudden?

My views havent changed, bluefoot.

> Oh, I get it; Jon wants
> you to change your Christian beliefs as well,

I dont think Jon spends his life trying to affect my worldview. In any
event, my views are entirely consistent with Christianity: Jesus ate
meat, he caught and provided fish to others to eat, etc. Your problem
isnt with me, or even Jonathan, its with Jesus.

> and being
> completely and utterly caught up in his lies and persuasion,
> youll change them accordingly. What a smuck!

Which lies are those, schmuck? Like being part Jewish? Or that someone
else would loan you a usenet account under the nym ipse dixit? Or that
your longsuffering wife was posting using her middle name? Or that your
kid would come to newsgroups to defend your sorry arse?

Pot. Kettle. Black.


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PostPosted: 2004-02-03 09:50:06
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Joined: 2004-02-03 09:50:06
usual suspect wrote in message
news:2XzTb.28541$eY2.2473@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> usual suspect wrote:
>
> I dont know if the Creator gave *animals* rights,
> but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals.
> Funny that.

Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
similar comment from Bart. In it, you ask, Does
dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
You then go on to ANSWER that question by
using Genesis 1:29-30 which gives a non-animal
diet.

[start]
From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST

> Bart said:
> So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
> over the animal kingdom.

Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?

***The answer*** is found immediately following
one of the verses you quoted: **my edit**

Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
and it was so.

So Jews and Christians have as legitimate a stake to
veganism and vegetarianism as any other religion.
[end]

Is your desperation to attack the remaining vegans
here so far advanced that youre willing to change
your views on Gods word? Shame on you.


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