On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:07:37 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
>Dreck wrote:
>>>>Animals are not moral agents and generally operate
>>>>by instinct and conditioning (the same can be said of
>>>>far too many humans). Animals should be afforded
>>>>protection under the law. But are they endowed with
>>>>any rights by their creator? I do not know that answer.
>>>>usual suspect Date: 2002-06-12
>>>>
>>>>From that, its clear you dont know the answer,
>>>>but since Jon started telling you how to think
>>>>you seem to have no doubts at all. Funny that.
>>>
>>>Jon is not the Creator. I dont know if the Creator gave *animals*
>>>rights, but the Creator gave *us* dominion over animals. Funny that.
>>
>> Yes, it is, especially when I read your reply to a
>> similar comment from Bart.
>
>Which, as usual, you have selectively snipped and taken out of context.
>
>> [start]
>> From: usual suspect (having@fun.yet)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
>> Date: 2002-06-11 15:16:06 PST
>>
>>
>>>Bart said:
>>>So, according to the bible, God gave us dominion
>>>over the animal kingdom.
>>
>>
>> Does dominion include slaughtering and eating them?
>> The answer is found immediately following one of
>> the verses you quoted:
>>
>> Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version) -- And
>> God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields
>> seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every
>> tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
>> Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the
>> air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which
>> there is life, I have given every green herb for food;
>> and it was so.
Genesis 4
3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil
as an offering to the LORD.
4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his
flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain
was very angry, and his face was downcast.
Genesis 9
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, Be fruitful
and increase in number and fill the earth.
2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth
and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along
the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into
your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave
you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will
demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too,
I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Exodus 12
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt,
2 This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of
your year.
3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this
month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each
household.
[...]
6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when
all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them
at twilight.
7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides
and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the
lambs.
8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire,
along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over
the fire-head, legs and inner parts.
[...]
14 This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you
shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD -a lasting ordinance.
Leviticus 1
1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting.
He said,
2 Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `When any of you brings an
offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either
the herd or the flock.
3 `If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer
a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent
of Meeting so that it[1] will be acceptable to the LORD.
4 He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will
be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him.
5 He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aarons
sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the
altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.
6 He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces.
7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange
wood on the fire.
8 Then Aarons sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the
head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar.
9 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest
is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering
made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Leviticus 12
6 When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over,
she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a
year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for
a sin offering.
7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and
then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood. These are
the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl.
8 If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young
pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In
this
way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.
Deuteronomy 12
15 Nevertheless, you may slaughter your animals in any of your
towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were
gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the LORD your
God gives you. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean
may eat it.
Deuteronomy 14
4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the
goat,
5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex,
the antelope and the mountain sheep.
6 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and
that chews the cud.
7 However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof
completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the
coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split
hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you.
8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not
chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their
carcasses.
9 Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has
fins and scales.
10 But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat;
for you it is unclean.
11 You may eat any clean bird.
12 But these you may not eat: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture,
13 the red kite, the black kite, any kind of falcon,
14 any kind of raven,
15 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk,
16 the little owl, the great owl, the white owl,
17 the desert owl, the osprey, the cormorant,
18 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
19 All flying insects that swarm are unclean to you; do not eat them.
20 But any winged creature that is clean you may eat.
21 Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an
alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may
sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the LORD your
God. Do not cook a young goat in its mothers milk.
1 Kings 8
5 and King Solomon and the entire assembly of Israel that had
gathered about him were before the ark, sacrificing so many sheep
and cattle that they could not be recorded or counted.
[...]
63 Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the LORD:
twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand
sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the
temple of the LORD.
Mark 7
18 Are you so dull? he asked. Dont you see that nothing
that enters a man from the outside can make him `unclean?
19 For it doesnt go into his heart but into his stomach, and
then out of his body. (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods
clean.)
Mark 14
12 On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it
was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus disciples
asked him, Where do you want us to go and make preparations
for you to eat the Passover?
13 So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, Go into the city,
and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him.
14 Say to the owner of the house he enters, The Teacher asks:
Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my
disciples?
(refer to Exodus 12 for details about the Passover food)
Luke 2
22 When the time of their purification according to the Law of
Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to
Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, Every firstborn male is
to be consecrated to the Lord ),
24 and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law
of the Lord: a pair of doves or two young pigeons.
Luke 24
39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see;
a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and
amazement, he asked them, Do you have anything here to eat?
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
John 21
4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples
did not realize that it was Jesus.
5 He called out to them, Friends, havent you any fish? No, they
answered.
6 He said, Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will
find some. When they did, they were unable to haul the net in
because of the large number of fish.
[...]
9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish
on it, and some bread.
10 Jesus said to them, Bring some of the fish you have just caught.
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full
of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
12 Jesus said to them, Come and have breakfast.
Acts 10
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and
approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal
was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let
down to earth by its four corners.
12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles
of the earth and birds of the air.
13 Then a voice told him, Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.
14 Surely not, Lord! Peter replied. I have never eaten anything
impure or unclean.
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, Do not call anything impure
that God has made clean.
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back
to heaven.
Romans 14
1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on
disputable matters.
2 One mans faith allows him to eat everything, but another man,
whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who
does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not
condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you to judge someone elses servant? To his own
master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able
to make him stand.
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another
man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully
convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He
who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and
he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself
alone.
8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord.
So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he
might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down
on your brother? For we will all stand before Gods judgment seat.
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